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… and a lot of Canadian small firms are aware of some of the alternatives that their counterparts in other parts of the … Post and we do here from them, but they have some other alternatives. The group that we hear from first, every time … modernize the payment system, make it faster and have more alternatives in place, if we can ensure that the costs are …

… That's great. Rob, over to you. Rob Mayer: So Jude, the objective of what we're doing on the RTR is to build an …

… massive opportunities for new innovations to happen in this space. And I think we'll see that with real-time payments … I think most of us, we've identified most in the payment space, have identify that with COVID-19 there's been a bit … the banks. Again, not a lot of competition in the market space, and slow to innovate. And then you've had these 800 …

… I think we also see a movement in the account-to-account space. We're very lucky in Europe, the UK to have instant … think we'll see a merging of the physical and the virtual space. We're now living in an area in a time where contact … focus on providing inclusion into the electronic payment space. And that's not just at the point of the payment. I …

… banking. We are playing in the same increasingly crowded space, and differentiation is hard. In north America nearly … Do you see any others that would be maybe in the non card space? Michael Abbott: So this goes to another part of the … use it, who can accept it is useless. You are alone in your space. Michael Abbott: Exactly. You and I could send each …

… payment system or a market infrastructure has to have objective criteria that are risk-based. And that are … make it easier for Canadian entrepreneurs in the financial space to grow and then use Canada as a staging ground to … And there are ways that we could do things from a principle space perspective that would be unhelpful to incenting …

… des problèmes qui se posent actuellement dans le cyberespace et expliqueront comment se protéger dans ce contexte … with their mandate to support national intelligence objectives. But sometimes those tools, they make their way …

… that it's compounded by an awareness problem of what the alternatives are. It's not as if there was one magic day where the alternative was completely figured out and we all had an … do next, so it's not so much that I've rejected some better alternative. I'm in a state of zero awareness of what that …